Regarding WJ, Drop B-Hop, B-Hop, GOKZ Jumpstats

Discussion in 'Jumpstats Discussion' started by DanZay, Jul 26, 2017.

  1. DanZay

    DanZay Moderator Programmer Mapper

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    Why are there limits to the pre-speed for these jumpstats?

    Why were the values for max drop distance were chosen?

    Is drop b-hop actually valuable as a jump type in CS:GO?

    Would you like to see pre-speed removed in favour of only having a drop distance limit?


    EDIT: Thread repurposed for GOKZ jumpstats design discussion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
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  2. Sikari

    Sikari PRO Staff Member KZGlobalAdmin Programmer

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    I feel like prespeed cap was a lazy way to implement drop distance limit
     
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  3. Funk

    Funk Administrator

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    Probably to add some difference between bhop/drophop and multihop. I used to play on a server where bhop/drophop max pre was 380 and it was literal aids, mainly for singlehop - having to prestrafe into a 360 bhop with a low sens gives me asscancer (I tend to avoid regular 360 jumps lul), also the highest stats for singlehop were basically the same as those for multihop.
    No idea, not sure why the max drop distance is even a thing when the pre limit exists.
    Not really, also considering the fact that on most maps drophopping gives you less height and you literally have to find a map to give you the same height as regular singlehop this jumpstat is basically useless.
    I'd rather keep the pre limit, having a height distance limit instead would reintroduce what i described in my first point - getting the max possible pre within the height limit (i.e. 360'ing with pre - aids for people with low sens).
     
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  4. Dicky

    Dicky TRAINEE

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    D; call the bind police ! imo drop bhop is weird in csgo lol
     
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  5. GameChaos

    GameChaos perfect jump ratio: 86.60% Staff Member KZGlobalAdmin Official Map Tester Mapper

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    dropbhop is fucking pointless !!!!!!!
     
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  6. Jak

    Jak Prodigy

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    Just get rid of drop bhop already.
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. zer0.k

    zer0.k REGULAR

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    I would like to see a way to cap the wj prespeed in jumpstats so I won't get those stupid "too much speed 300.2/300.0" shit
     
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  8. DanZay

    DanZay Moderator Programmer Mapper

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    @Funk

    Isn't it also quite aids staying under a pre-speed? And would your concerns be at all alleviated if the restrictions on turn binds were eased so that you can use them for 360ing, for example?
     
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  9. Funk

    Funk Administrator

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    Remove jumpstats ez fix.

    Turn binds sound horrible, I'd rather have you add auto pre limit like cj.
     
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  10. Ivan

    Ivan TRAINEE

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    Drop bhop is a useless and archaic jumpstat that should be removed from KZ.

    Count jump on the other hand....
     
  11. zer0.k

    zer0.k REGULAR

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    I'm not sure if count jump in csgo is even a "count" jump

    Though i would like to see it in simplekz as a new way to get over 276 prespeed in jumps since 360 degree bhops are gone and perfs are now consistent
     
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  12. GnagarN

    GnagarN SexPanda Pro Player

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    There is no real reason for there to be a limit, I think I talked to 1nut about this when he was making the plugin.
    Think the only reason he came up with then was that otherwise there would be no way to differentiate between a dropbhop and a regular bhop which in my eyes are no reason at all.

    Same with WJing I guess, otherwise they will all be in the same jumpstat which he didn't want.
    It was a long time ago so I may be misremembering some things but I think it was like that.
     
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  13. DanZay

    DanZay Moderator Programmer Mapper

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    There are currently no plans to implement "countjump".
     
  14. ebyssal

    ebyssal EXPERT

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    dropbhop is my best stat (not really in terms of distance but I can hit an ownage+ every 30 seconds or so with it) and I love it since I'm apparently the only person who has no issue getting perfect pre and good bind perf rates on them....

    i also use it to impress women a lot

    but yeah trash that shit it's the same precap as bhop and currently in kztimer it only exists for the handful of us who don't get aids from doing them (get fukt aris) so we can spam ownages with stats that would have otherwise been mostly godlikes if it were compared to regular hops.

    WJ i think is kind of unique and needs to stay even though I fucking hate them, since it's actually a jump type I find myself using (well) while running maps. Falling onto a lower platform and hitting the hop to the next one is gonna be faster than me drophopping onto it of course. WJ is a pretty valuable type of jump, stats aside.

    So trashing drophop (which is the obvious consensus so far even including myself and funk who do somewhat well with them) gets rid of your last three questions.

    To answer the remaining one, yeah the pre-cap I'd say is just to differentiate single from multi hop. I think it's fine the way it is (haven't fucked around in simplekz much at all but i'd imagine getting bhop pre works the same...?).

    But holy hell if you can add something similar to the speedcap in HnS that only would affect a single bhop, that would make jumpstatting them so much less aids.

    Take this HnS stat for example. There's a 285 speedcap, and as soon as I hit the hop, it just gives me max pre since I was above the speedcap anyways. It just adds that invisible 70 loss to my first strafe, just as starting a multibhop in kztimer at 400 speed would add 20 loss to the 1st.

    So if you could make going over 360 on a single hop put you at 359.999 or whatever, lives would be saved.

    [JS] 「§NG」| ebyssal jumped 293.3505 units with a Bhop [9 Strafes | 357.100 Pre | 375.882 Max | Height 58.4 | 91% Sync]
    #. Sync Gained Lost MaxSpeed
    1. 90% 12.448 70.177 299.371
    2. 100% 12.300 0.000 311.672
    3. 100% 11.955 0.000 323.627
    4. 89% 9.057 0.327 332.357
    5. 85% 12.906 0.000 345.264
    6. 90% 8.737 0.087 353.914
    7. 93% 10.829 0.000 364.744
    8. 88% 6.002 0.209 370.537
    9. 87% 5.344 0.000 375.882

    But then, again havn't done enough simplekz to say, I'd imagine this would fuck with runs if it was applied there? Not sure. I don't even know what the speedcap is in simplekz because I've only ran some very basic bkz maps there so far. I'll try to run more though and give it a chance.

    Anyways I'm retarded and jumpstatted my ass off for the past two months and ruined my strafes completely by nulling for the past week without ever maintaining my strafing, so talkin about this sht is all im good for right now. feel free to ask me any questions if you'd like my dumb opinions.
     
  15. DanZay

    DanZay Moderator Programmer Mapper

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    Familiarity with how bhop pre-speed works in SimpleKZ mode in GOKZ is probably necessary for this discussion. Basically, the more speed you land with, the higher your b-hop pre speed will be. WJs are slightly different (has prestrafe inheritance).

    Ideally, the rules for jumpstats would be the same between KZTimer and SimpleKZ modes.

    My ideas right now are:
    Match settings as if timer is running i.e. no 1-tick crouchjump / crouchjump bind.
    Jumps
    LongJump remains the same.
    BunnyHop has uncapped pre-speed, performed on level ground, or going from lower to higher ground.
    DropBhop remove as a jumpstat, or have some drop distance cap decided upon, with uncapped pre-speed.
    MultiBunnyHop must have all bhops performed on level ground, or going from lower to higher ground.
    WeirdJump will have some drop distance cap decided upon, with uncapped pre-speed.
    LadderJump TBD. Need to find the best way to measure this due to bugs e.g. offset ladders.
    CountJump not planned - will try not to mention this again.

    Note that just because a jump doesn't count as one of the above, we can still have a stats read out for it. Think of the above as possible official, comparable jumpstat categories.

    As you can tell, I'm not really on board for having speed limits because they feel arbitrary, frustrating to stay under, and may have to be different between the modes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  16. ebyssal

    ebyssal EXPERT

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    Mmmk very fair I'll try and fuck around with bunnyhop pres in simple later today.

    Is it possible in any way to remove the crouchjump bind from providing its benefits to bunnyhop, multibunnyhop, and weird jump?

    I can hit 40% bind perf ratios in all except WJ (which is 0% for me) and personally arguably benefit from binding in jumpstats more than most others when it comes to stat competition, but holy shit binding hops needs to go if at all humanly possible. It's so aids. Nobody wants to do it but those who are competing for their jumpstats are essentially forced into the life of aids binding hop stats.

    LJ bind for LJs is fine obviously imo.
     
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  17. GameChaos

    GameChaos perfect jump ratio: 86.60% Staff Member KZGlobalAdmin Official Map Tester Mapper

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    bind has already been removed
    and fuck you lj bind is not ok
     
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  18. ebyssal

    ebyssal EXPERT

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    Oh shit. My bad @GameChaos and @DanZay I'm incapable of reading.

    I saw "Match settings as if timer is running i.e. no 1-tick crouchjump / crouchjump bind." and thought that shit said smth about matching kztimer's current thing where you can bind shit if your timer isn't running.

    sry, this is what nulls did to me

    forgive me @Funk

    oh and @GameChaos i said that last part under the assumption that bind was allowed, and really only cared about it being removed for hops. if it's gone from LJ, even better. im dumb
     
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  19. GameChaos

    GameChaos perfect jump ratio: 86.60% Staff Member KZGlobalAdmin Official Map Tester Mapper

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    GOOD
     
  20. zer0.k

    zer0.k REGULAR

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    I would like to an option to see stats in every jump that includes distance travelled, Pre and max speed, height change (like you go from a block to a lower one), number of strafes, sync% and perf indicator.
    For example

    [KZ] Distance: 265.6 | Speed: 276.1/340.5 | 4 Strafes | 72% Sync | PosY: +0

    [KZ] Distance: 209.7 | Speed: 268.1/342.3 | 6 Strafes | 75% Sync | PosY: +12
     
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