Map Tiers Revisited

Discussion in 'Global Maps - Feedback & Discussion' started by DanZay, Feb 21, 2017.

  1. Cookie4D

    Cookie4D SCRUB

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    • kz_heatvents_mq (3)
    • kz_module (4)
    • bkz_underground_crypt_v3 (4)
    I don't think it makes any sense for module to be considered harder than heatvents and i strongly believe that the difficulty from underground_crypt comes from how hard it is to kurouch in low ceiling areas if you don't have the experience, i doubt "basic tech" is enough to finish that map
     
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  2. Dumek

    Dumek SCRUB

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    Well I'm not any good at tricky ladders/jumps but I think that it is a bit unfair to call communityjump/verve on the same level with fastcombomap.
     
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  3. Fafnir

    Fafnir SKILLED

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    communityjump3 at least tier4 bcz of boosters and Heavy Strafes imo....
     
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  4. caja

    caja SKILLED

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    bkz_synergy_ez 2 > 3 (this map is actually pretty hard)
    bkz_coldbhop_cg 2 > 1 (if you can type bind mwheelup +jump you can do this map, no question)
    kz_blindcity_easy_fix 3 > 2 (this map can be done with all w + jump + crouch and less than 1 strafe)
    kz_kzinga_fixed 2 > 3
    kz_oasis 3 > 2 how was this a 3?
    kz_orbolution_v2 seems a bit easy to be a 4, but I'm not sure it's a 3

    Is tier 6 a joke?
    Bhop blocks shouldn't automatically make a map t2
     
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  5. Krushed

    Krushed PRO Official Map Tester Mapper

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    I agree with the others, but I think kz_oasis is fine at 3. It does have quite a few ladders and surfs, 'longjumps' and a few slightly hard yumps
     
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  6. caja

    caja SKILLED

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    kz_kingsbay_v2 2 > 3 then. Ladders I constantly see people struggling with, 3 surfs in the map, and has longer required LJ's than oasis.
     
  7. ollyabc

    ollyabc EXPERT

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    • underground_crypt > 5. Because of the crouch headbangers bhop bit imo. Without that I would give it a 4.
    • cascade > 3. It's just notably more difficult than everything else in 2.
    • communityjump > 4. You have to be able to strafe reasonably well to complete this map. Also, length should be a factor.
    • island > 3. Really just based off the last 5-10 secs of the map.
    • kingsbay > 3. There's no way it's a 2.
    • kzinga > 3. Jumps are just harder than everything else in 2.
    • nightmare > 3. Again nothing in particular just average jump difficulty.
    • synergy_ez > 3. Newer players will get stuck on the three kinda long bhop sections due to their length combined with the fact that you're not just going in a straight line but around corners where you can't see the next block.
    • tileblock > 2. There's jumps that aren't incredibly easy.
    • toonrun > 3. There's some awkward headbangers that make it a whole lot harder than coldbhop lol. If not 3 then 2.
    • uninspired_trash > 3. Lengthy bhop sections combined with the bhop being somewhat complicated.
     
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  8. Krushed

    Krushed PRO Official Map Tester Mapper

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    Maybe an idea to just let people fill in their thoughts on a tier and take an average of the total. (Or like a select group or something)
     
  9. MMZ>Kask

    MMZ>Kask I am csgo kz

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    That's a terrible idea and you should feel bad for suggesting it.
     
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  10. Alves

    Alves CASUAL

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    • bkz_underground_crypt_v3 (5) Basic tech but medium-long map.
    • kz_gitgud_final (5) Would put a 4, but for the length can become 'stressful'.
    • kz_grass_final (4) Hard but very short.
    • bkz_synergy_x (4) I do not consider any factor that makes the current range of dead.
    • kz_high_tech (6) I think the map (GLOBAL) most difficult.
    • kz_green (2) I do not think i have any part considered 'medium'.
    I think the length of a map has a little influence on its difficulty.
     
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  11. persona

    persona heh Mapper Pro Player

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    Yeah, just look how badly it ended up working for map approvals
     
  12. DanZay

    DanZay PRO Staff Member KZGlobalAdmin Programmer

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    A lot of my choices for tiers are obviously going to be wrong since I only have my own perspective.

    @Cookie4D
    I think kz_module should also be tier 4. I'm not really seeing new players being able to complete/enjoy kz_heatvents_mq or kz_module. I'm happy to consider bkz_underground_crypt_v3 a high tier 4, but only maybe a tier 5.

    @Dumek
    I'm a bit biased when it comes to ladders, but what do you consider a tier 3 ladder? In my opinion, the tiers should be accurate for a well rounded player, and for that sort of player, I think the ladders are at a similar level as the rest of the map.

    @Fafnir
    I'm thinking I agree (communityjump3 tier 4).

    @caja
    kz_blindcity_easy_fix - Agreed. Should be tier 2.
    kz_orbolution_v2 - An extremely challenging map for new players so tier 4 is accurate.
    There are very few maps are tier 6. What do you mean tier 6 is a joke?
    Why shouldn't bhops make a map automatically tier 2?

    @caja @Krushed
    I agree with the kz_oasis/kz_kingsbay logic.

    @ollyabc
    communityjump - Agreed but why should length be a factor?
    island - Are you referring to the surf jump at the end? Is it truly tier 3?
    synergy_ez - Agreed.
    toonrun - Agreed with the logic. Thinking tier 2 for this map.
    uninspired_trash - Agreed.

    @Alves
    Why should length be a factor?
     
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  13. MMZ>Kask

    MMZ>Kask I am csgo kz

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    This is the assumption that ruins most tier attempts in my opinion. I set up and ran a tier system strictly for House of Climb - in my experience, the entire tier process is summed up by one simple question:

    Who actually cares about the tier of a map? The answer: newer players.

    And length should be considered because it makes a map more difficult to complete.
     
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  14. ollyabc

    ollyabc EXPERT

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    Well it makes it harder to complete. Not really for easy maps, but the strafe heavy game play of commjump means the length makes it gruelling if you are already struggling with it.
    After sorting the spreadsheet by new tier and looking through, probably not. I wasn't thinking of the surf but the two jumps after that.

    Also, sahara > 3. Certain sections of this map easily warrant a 3 and overall it seems notably harder than everything else in this tier.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
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  15. ollyabc

    ollyabc EXPERT

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    I agree with Kask. Tiers are only relevant for new players. Once you complete a map, who cares what tier it is, you already know exactly how difficult it is for you personally. The people who have yet to complete a map and thus the people who might care about that map's tier are generally the new players.
     
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  16. DanZay

    DanZay PRO Staff Member KZGlobalAdmin Programmer

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    OK agreed for now, certainly. But tiers could potentially mean more in the future.
     
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  17. Alves

    Alves CASUAL

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    Think hypothetically that you can create two maps with the same '' difficulty '' (DEAD), one of 5 minutes and another of 60 minutes (approximately). Which would be more laborious to complete? Since comparison is impossible because there is an inequality between the size of the map, but you understand what I want to get, right?
    Also it is quite debatable, but that's my opinion
     
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  18. Krushed

    Krushed PRO Official Map Tester Mapper

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    Well, now I'm feeling bad while we're essentially in the middle of doing the suggestion T_T
     
  19. caja

    caja SKILLED

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    -I ask if t6 is a joke because there was like 1 map at T5 when I looked. I figured 5 and 6 should be combined.
    -Orbolution I can agree with, kingsbay was a 2 at the time.
    -Bhop maps shouldn't make a map automatically tier 2 from my experience with getting real life friends to try out KZ. They can pretty consistently do bhop sections as long as they are shorter than ~8 or so blocks. bkz_coldbhop_cg comes to my mind as something that most people trying out kz could do. Bhop should factor into difficulty, but bkz_impulse(or kz_dryness) and bkz_coldbhop_cg should not be the same tier of bhop map.
     

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