Approving and Degloballing maps

Discussion in 'Global Maps - Feedback & Discussion' started by crixzzi, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. crixzzi

    crixzzi TRAINEE Mapper

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    The topic of degloballing maps has come up more than once recently on the discord and because I think that the discord is not very useful for longer posts I thought I might make a thread here.

    I'll try to keep this structured to avoid rambling

    1.) Community Involvement
    I think that it's generally a good idea to ask for opinions and the addition of a community vote to the Map Approval Process is a positive thing but in the end someone has to make a decision. As it stands right now this person would be Zach and I can understand that he doesn't want to piss too many people off but I think that at some point the discussion has to end and in the end there are always gonna be people bitching about something.

    2.) Degloballing Maps
    There has been some discussion about individual maps that should or should not be degloballed but I think that something else has been overlooked. The actual criteria that the maps, that are already global have to meet.

    The first question that comes to mind is actually:
    Which maps should be considered to be degloballed? Should all maps be reviewed or should the Map Testing Team make a preliminary list of maps that should be reviewed more closely?

    The second question here is about the actual criteria that the maps have to meet. There is an endless amount of criteria that could be brought up here. And each one of them could get maps degloballed.

    There are clearly quantifiable ones:
    - Bhop skips (bkz_levite_ng, kz_peak_global, kz_nyc_v1, kz_adv_cursedjourney, kz_district_d01, kz_gitgud_final, ...)
    - Forced Bhops (kz_magus, kz_gurk, ...)
    - Kuoruching (This might belong to forced bhops) ( bkz_apricity, bkz_underground_crypt_v3, kz_retribution_v2_final)
    And ones that are not so quantifiable
    - Repetetiveness (bkz_blackrockshooter_vzp, bkz_impulse,...)
    - Competetiveness
    - Popularity
    There are arguments for and against and different interpretations for pretty much all of these.

    The third question is if there should be a difference between maps that are already global and the ones that are not.

    3.) The Map Testing Team
    The point of all this is that I think that discussing this too much is not very productive. Community Input can only go so far and, as I already said, in the end someone has to actually make a decision.
    Another issue of mine is that it seems like the Map Testing Team as a whole did not have an internal discussion about any of this.

    If I'm being blunt I think that you guys should grow a pair.

    "Their reasoning is that a large open area which requires bhops isn't a fault of the map, but of the Timer we use. Changing old maps like this one may end up requiring changes to many other maps, which could be disastrous ." - From the #Maptesting_decisions channel.

    If you think that the map shouldnt be global, then deglobal it. Dont let yourself get bullied into representing an opinion that isnt yours. If you believe it or not and if some people like it or not, you guys actually have some sort of authority in this. And putting a sarcastic message into this certainly doesnt help either.

    Make up your mind as to how and why maps should be degloballed, communicate this and fuck people that dont like it. It's not like these people couldnt be in the Map Testing Team. They chose to not put in the time to take over this responsibility. You did.

    I think this got a bit rambly.

    PS: I do not want to start a discussion about individual maps or criteria or whatever.

    ITT: Several jokes and memes about kz being dead and some pointless posts that make every attempt at a serious discussion void and useless.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
    GameChaos likes this.
  2. GameChaos

    GameChaos perfect jump ratio: 86.60% Official Map Tester Mapper

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    fyi levite_ng doesn't have any bhop skips
     
  3. Zach47

    Zach47 randomly hit 9 380s lol Staff Member KZGlobalAdmin Video Editor Official Map Tester Pro Player

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    Couldn't care less. People have been yelling at me since before I was maptesting lead. If a bunch of people are getting mad, then there's a reason.

    Yes, that's the goal. At the moment though, it's picking from maps that we know are bad (cakewalk, walpurgisnacht, etc..) and reviewing them. The goal is to do 1 map a week (1 vote a week). That may mean that it takes 300 weeks to review every map, but thats why we're starting with the worst first. Eventually, you may see the map testing team deciding on whether or not we remove kz_colors_v2 or kz_adv_cursedjourney. Hopefully most would recognize that we wouldn't want to remove these maps.

    You're right. The ones you listed could each deglobal any map. However, it should be recognized by both the map testing team and the community that it can't just be "bhop skips" that remove a map. It's a case-by-case situation which is why discussion is necessary.

    Sure, at least I think so. Age of a map is a criteria that doesn't affect non-global maps but heavily affects people's opinions on global maps. Bhop skips also vary (on older maps, people are already okay with grinding them on certain maps). So in my opinion, they should be considered differently for maps that are global and non-global.

    I don't want there to be internal discussion. Thats the whole point of #maptesting_discussion. Maptesters and the community can discuss a map together rather than having two different conversations.

    So here's the thing. The players play the maps. Their input is more valuable than any map tester, regardless of what anyone thinks. Players can like and play the worst map ever made, and as long as its still actively being played, it won't be degloballed (except in cases where its due to major skips, bugs, or what have you). I cannot and will not remove a map because I believe my opinion is more valid than theirs. Furthermore, this was the issue with the past map testing teams. It resulted in maps getting approved/removed with very little input from the community. So as a result, I want to include the community on EVERY map review. I want players to say that a map is still great and they want it to stay. I want players to say that a map is so awful that it should've been gone the day it got approved. Without active players, there is no point in approving/removing maps. As such, the players matter more than myself or the map testers.


    I'd much rather see hours and hours of discussion on maps that have been global for 3 years than no discussion at all. Not having a discussion could result in removing favorite maps, or approving disliked maps.

    Also, for those who aren't already in the discord, you can join here:
    http://discord.gg/csgokz
    Thanks, Zach47.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
    ebyssal, persona, Fr0ggy and 3 others like this.

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